19 August 2016

HENRY THREADGILL'S ZOOID "POP START THE TAPE, STOP" (HARDEDGE, 2003)



Henry Threadgill, flute, bass flute, hubkaphone
Liberty Ellman, acoustic guitar
Tarik Benbrahim, oud
Dana Leongi, cello
Jose Davila, tuba
Elliot Humberto Kavee, drums


A. Pop Start The Tape, Stop     24:35
B. Pop Start The Tape, Stop (Cont'd)     18:09


Recorded at Engine 27, New York City, September 12, 2003
Limited edition of 1000 (numbered) copies


HARDEDGE HE-001  (vinyl rip)

42 comments:

onxidlib said...

1fichier

Anonymous said...

Hi Onxidlib

Thank for the post but sorry to let you know that it is in mono. Disappointment!

Nod y said...

Hi Onxidlib

Here is what I found about the sleeve notes of "pop start the tapes, stop". Written by Mr Threadgill himself:
"Pop Start the Tape, Stop" was composed for a sound installation and also a live performance format. I recorded the hubkaphone live in the space (Engine 27). The live tape was used with the ensemble. The hubkaphone was recorded and played through sixteen different speakers throughout the space. So, the sound is traveling at a designed speed from speaker to speaker. At certain times the hubkaphone is being heard at the octave above or below." So it is very important to hear it in stereo, do you think you could re-up it in stereo?
Thank in advance.

onxidlib said...

When I've ripped it the LP it was done in stereo as I do all my rips.
So probably my system or whatever is a bit 'defunct' or so.
Wether I will find time to do a new rip I don't know at the moment. And wether it helps will be seen...'cause I still have the same software with the same presets since about ten years. Among them > "stereo"

Nod y said...

I don't know what kind of system you use to transfer so I can't help, I have just noticed that several post on Inconstant sol are in mono like the Cleve Pozar, some Herbert Joos, the Wolfgang Dauner/Fred Van Hoov requiem, one Michel Pilz Trio and the Bernt Rosengren Notes from underground. I haven't established any list because I think it is not polite, considering that sharing music like you do is very generous even if for myself I don't keep files in mono but perhaps with the short list I have included you can have an idea of some period when the transfer of those titles have been done. Recently you have uploaded after my request the Robert Wood Sonabular and it was in stereo. it seems that this transfer was done recently after my request so perhaps some changes have happened in your system some years ago.

Nod y said...

In case of Onxidlib couldn't re-up it in stereo or if he don't have the time; if someone else have the lp and can do it I would appreciate it much, very much. Listening to the actual post with the sound of the Hubkaphone makes me really want to hear it in both speakers to listen to what Threadgill describe. he haven't played the hubkaphone since the Air live in Montreux and this instrument was absolutely great. So if some of you can help!!!

Lucky said...

onxidlib - happy to let you know that I enjoy this, regardless of sum of channels!

Just the other I read an article on Wayne Horvitz homepage about Butch Morris, and how he always listened to music on his system by putting to speakers on top of each other, regardless that it kills the stereo effect - he wouldn't change it! That's focus. :)

Anonymous said...

great post. didn't know this existed. very excited to hear him with the hubkaphone again.. this is really special, one of his best.
onxidilib, much love.

Nod y said...

@Lucky
I think there is no rules, perhaps Butch Morris did this to have a different approach to the sound. I can imagine that when you conduct a band and when you bring some conversations between some musicians that represent part of the band, you want to appreciate if the effect is the same with one channel or with the stereo. I used to record some bands and during the process I always checked the sound in mono, simply because I didn't know all the sound systems of the people who will listen this recording. It remain me a fact in relation with Blue Note and Contemporary. I don't know if you had the luck to listen to an original Blue Note lp, I mean original pressings of the late 50 early 60. Since Blue Note have published their lp in mono and in Stereo, the mono versions were incredibly better than the stereo ones, the sound dynamic was really stronger. It was exactly the opposite for contemporary. All the contemporary even the first ones really sounding better in stereo.

Alter Kocker said...

mono?
i'd pull an 8-track tape out of a sewer for unheard Threadgill

Alter Kocker said...

Anyway, mono or not,

Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!

Andy said...

Yay. I enjoyed this a lot, the Hubkaphone being surprisingly nostalgic of days of yore when I first started buying Air LPs. Then I paid (I know!) for a bandcamp dl of Henry Threadgill Ensemble Double Up - Old Locks and Irregular Verbs, which is really nice. Then I discovered Nick's posting of 5 (!) Zooid concerts in Contributions. Enjoying 'London' as I type. A good evening was had. Many thanks. http://pirecordings.com/album/pi64

Lucky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nod y said...

@Lucky
First it is me who suggested this post, see the request section; in my point of view, making a comment like i did is not the proof of non respect, it is the proof that I carefully listen to the post and that each post is precious to me. Many people upload music everywhere, putting it in the art disc and one day they don't even remember what they have collected over the years. I know that some people doesn't really care about the sound quality, see all the music that travels in a blog like "darker shade of..." mostly in mp3, people do what they want but for me sound quality is important. My goal was only to notice it because I supposed that Onxidlib didn't notice it. Here when I'm interested by a post I always write a comment to thank, Im' not sure it is the case for all the people who follow this blog.
But if you want you can give me an email address and before posting a comment I can send it to you and you can approve it and consider if I can publish it or no?

Wallofsound said...

Many thanks for this.

-Otto- said...

Thanks, onxidlib. Stereo or not, an LP to enjoy. Thanks!

Nod y said...

Hi Onxidlib

Everybody seems happy with the post so I suppose that you won't try to re-up it? I hope you are not angry at my preview comment. if your file is in stereo perhaps the problem is coming during the transfer... And if it is this, it is probably the same problem for few others posts that are in mono. By the way i wonder if it is necessary to make post in flac and with high quality that is the case here, because most people seems not to really care about sound.

Ernst Grgo Nebhuth said...

To to a re-upload wouldn't be the problem. But to do a new rip is the "time-consumer" so to say.

(from formerly onxidlib)

Tantris said...

The rar file unpacks to a high quality stereo file for me.

Many thanks, Ernst / onxidlib - this is unexplored territory for me.

corvimax said...

that's very good and unexpected, many thanks

Nod y said...

@Ernst/onxidlib
Too bad. I would have been very interested to listen to the hubcaphone in stereo regarding the description of the recording process that Threadgill did and the effect he wanted to create.

lee said...

onxidlib - cannot thank you enough for this. THANKS!!!

Anonymous said...

Strange - cannot connect to 1fichier - not this link or any other...

Anonymous said...

^^check your settings...link above still looks good.

thanks onx for this rare and very interesting recording

mikeL

toci said...

Interesting Henry.Thanks again.

Anonymous said...

a present - lossy in 256 but in stereo - for Nod y at least.
for other guys is only for comparison purpose, you are already satisfied from mono, isn't it ?
https://mega.nz/#!J4E3Ba4C!w2XCqEmgHrXeoI0xjLPLYKpmrtLkqOaLWaejENJR0Ug
In waiting till a new lossless stereo LP rip i send you all
best regards
Arnold

Andy said...

Thanks Arnold. I too would love a stereo flac. Noddy wont entertain 256 surely?

Nod said...

I couldn't imagine that I had one day the chance to listen to this album in stereo. In fact when I immediately noticed that the first post was in mono, i didn't go on listening. So with your version Arnold, I completely discovered this album and it is a great one, absolutely special in Threadgill's discography. Of course when you hear the hubkaphone dancing through the channels and when you listen to it carefully to the sound variations, it is clear that this album have no meaning in mono. But mono is probably enough for people who download files, listen to them only once and let them sleep in their hard disk for the rest of the time, many many thanks Arnold.

Nod said...

Hello again.
Arnold I wonder if you could post it in flac? Your 256 version have a very correct sound, but I wonder if the Hubkaphone could sound better with a flac version, particularly in the echo of the sound. But if you can't, no problem, a big thank to you again because this album is really great. At the time it was published I had some contact with the producer and he told me that Threadgill was not happy with the sound of the album, he didn't told me more details about the reason why Threadgill was complaining.

Tantris said...

To be clear, the original download is a stereo file. But what is not clear is how you reach such sweeping conclusions about people who either visit this blog, or who create content for it.

kinabalu said...

Suggestion for the Nod:

https://www.discogs.com/Henry-Threadgills-Zooid-Pop-Start-The-Tape-Stop/release/4162996

Only one left (as of now), so better hurry up. Ya know, you get the real thing, nice pic there of the hubs on the cover, no cheapo digital files. Unfortunately the cover is not in 3D, but you can't have everything. Accept no substitute ...

nod said...

@Tantris
Listen to the original post with some earphones and you will notice it is in mono.
@Kinabalu, unfortunately I have no more turn table and I asked many times to the producer if he have planned to realize a cd version but he don't want to do it.

Tantris said...

I've played it through Quad ESL63 speakers, and it is in stereo.

nod said...

so we haven't download the same file

Nick said...

Import into audacity,subtract left from right and what's left is your answer. If you have to know.

nod said...

Hello Nick
Reading your answer, first I thought you suggested to do something with audacity, my english is poor so I thought I haven't understand clearly what you say. But finally I perhaps have understood but I really hope no. You suggest to remove one of both channels and then I will have the answer, is that right? So for you a sound in stereo is only a sound that can be heard equally on both channels? So the recordings of Charlie Parker are in stereo for you? How do you name the recordings of Coltrane when the piano is on the left channel and the drums on the right channel? Quadriphonic?

nod said...

@Tantris, @Nick
Please do me a favor, listen to both files, the one by Onx and the one by arnold and tell me the difference you hear, eventually you can use earphones, seriously.

Nick said...

Nod - if you subtract the left channel from the right channel of a mono recording, all that is left is noise.

nod said...

and...?

Tantris said...

I've got both versions (flac and mp3) open in Fission at the moment, and have played side 1 for each version. Will move to side 2 shortly, but need to have a cup of tea first.

Here's what I've found. Both the flac and the mp3 files have an almost identical profile in Fission (which shows the detail for each channel). The sound floor of the mp3 file is a little higher, so it sounds a little more forward. The stereo separation is similar for both versions, with the flute & oud stable in the left/middle, and the guitar/percussion towards the right. Both versions are very good to listen to, with good depth to the sound, and only a few very minor crackles here and there.

The music is really enjoyable - a dreamy walk through a misty Japanese landscape, perhaps, and the entry of the tuba on side 2 (I've got my tea now) seems to signal a different dynamic, rather like moving from the countryside to an urban area.

Nick said...

Nod - if you are concerned about this - then you check it out - it is not my issue.

soyo said...

Thanks!!!