3 August 2019

Free form

Anything else goes here. Observations on the general state of the universe and its overall direction are particularly welcome, but also on more mundane matters as you may see fit.


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Igor said...

Igor, I have to admit that I was surprised by your firm demand for morally responsible behavior in an environment where the overall activity of sharing other people's music, to put it mildly, is morally questionable.
Anyway, you have my support, because the general attitude in the blogosphere is opportunistic - what I got for what I invested.

Miloš Latislav said...

Igor, i think we are not speaking here about blogsphere and internet in general. IS is sharing place for UNAVAiLABLE MUSiC i believe. Isn't it?

onxidlib said...

Yep - IS is about unavailable and unreleased music.
And we weren't talking about IS or the blogosphere in general. At least at the beginning of the discussion.
The topic seems to be the ethics of sharing lossy files while pretending to share lossless files.
All this ignited by Anonymous/Igor's severe indignation about a poster's seemingly 'cheaty' behaviour. As far as I can tell his critic is up to the point.
I've analysed the few downloads I took and have found only minimal evidence. But I'm not an expert.

@ kinabalu - thanks for offering me a home at the church of 'losslessnessless'.
But I have no inclination to join any party of whatever animus for more than an occaison.
But - thinking about - maybe I would join the path of 'lesslossness' ;-)

Anonymous said...

Looks like i set too many letters in motion to convey my thoughts and statements, so the system is unable to transport them all in one piece form to their destination, without require to split it into volumes, so it needs to apply some zeal to make it through.
Here's an episode from the script, coming suddenly to my mind, which might make onxidlib to wince in disgust again (sorry!).
There's an artful man named Arty. He has some water and wants to make some money from it. He makes a deal with the glass company to promote it. And here's the technology. Arty, from his booth, offers people to drink a glass of water, labled with the name of the brand of his companions, for free, as people like free water. More people to use the glasses - more profit, as company set this. But Arty's reserve isn't enough to make his trade worthful, so he decides to spit in some glasses to increase the amount of water, as when there's just one sip to drink from a glass, people show less interest, but when the glass is full, they take it gladly. Arty thinks "What is the problem? No one can be poisoned by spits, no one will even notice!". So he spits and spits, and people drink and drink, and glasses' traffic is steady, and Arty's doing fine. But one day some man named Ignor, being drawn by thirst and seduced by free service, yells after having some Arty's water "Crap! Did you just spit in there? How could you do this? Fraud!". Arty responds: "Dear churlish passer, did you by chance ever in life do something good for others, gave them something, share something nice with someone, as a human, simply, right from the heart and without obligation?". And some other men heard Ignor's hoot add: "Come on, man, what are you want? You didn't even pay for it!".
This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, businesses...

It's a good thing to make benefits from one's occupation, but not all things are good to make, right?
Anyway, i'm sure that the people who come to "Different perpectives...!", if they will see the initial "Wrong perspectives...!" message here, will take note of information it contains, no matter will they share my words about the linkman and his practice and my tactics or not. And as i've pointed above, i count, that it is a needful thing to publish it, without fail, so i do appreciate this, and, of course, all the real things you, inconstant sol guys, do and i respect your own opinions. Thank you!


p.s. Hey, onxidlib, if you still have your "Ketchaoua" LP (i've noticed your comment in that room), could you, please, consider to post the real thing some time? ; )

onxidlib said...

Hi Igor,

OK I take your point. And I was never disgusted by your writing/critic. But from my view I perceived your reaction about the "spitting-in-a-glass" a bit disproportionate.
Off course such a behaviour can make one angry (me too) but after an hour or two my uproar would trickle down for the most part.
I imagined a mere hint like: "...beware......", would have been enough yet appreciated.

Back to music. Yes I still have Thornton's "Ketchaoua" LP. Didn't made a rip of my copy up to now. At the moment I'm in the process of cleaning Bengt Ernryd's LP "Musik".
A few month ago I got it through a trade. Since I've heard Ernryd's Dragon LPs I was looking after the above mentioned item.
I gave the LP a cleaning treatment and washed it with a 'Loricraft' last week.
But to my dismay the LP still offered 'one-hundred' heavier clicks 'n pops.
So after I'm through with the manual removal of the worst scratches I shall tackle "Ketchaoua" which is - as I recall - in a much better condition than "Musik".
Frankly this might not be feasible before October or so - we'll see.

TINSTAAFLzo said...

Hi Everybody-Well, a good little birdie just clarified things a good bit for my ol'noggin to understand. They explained if one converts an mp3 to a flac, but then for one reason or another converts it BACK to mp3, it really sucks...So I hereby declare I will try not to pontificate on technical matters I know nothing about. There are many other burning issues we could be exploring: Who was better-Jarman or Mitchell? Do you Really like Cecil's grunting or not? Which label had the best cover design?[I vote BYG-Actuel!]Elvin or Rashied? Jeff Beck or Hendrix?
Not to mention ...

onxidlib said...

Hi Bozo,

don't know wether Jarman was better or Mitchell. But I have a fondness for Roscoe Mitchell's altosax. The sound and his lines/textures always make me smile and I feel myself quite happily energized. Not to mention his compositions and his playing on the soprano or bass-sax. I also enjoy his upbeat tunes played for example on the album "The Bad Guys". Hear "Do That Dance Called the Tangler", "Down in the Basement" or "Oh, See How They Run to L.A." All these intricate driving but lucid sounds which let me tingle in anticipation.

Cecil's grunting I do not like nor dislike except they give the music an extra momentum. This leads unfailingly to a grunting on my side...

Best label cover design? Hmm - I enjoy BYG or the few Jazz LPs Wergo produced (they have an analog design). All in all I have no real favourite label cover-wise. I could list a lot of albums which artwork I really like. May be a few will do it:
- The Music Improvisation Company ‎– 1968-1971 (Incus)
- Evan Parker / Derek Bailey / Han Bennink ‎– The Topography Of The Lungs (Incus)
- Derek Bailey & Han Bennink ‎– Derek Bailey & Han Bennink (Incus)
- Tony Oxley ‎– Tony Oxley (Incus)
- Fred Van Hove - KKWTT (Pour Quintette À Cuivres Et Piano Improvisé) (Nato)
- Urs Voerkel + Paul Lovens ‎– Goldberg (Po Torch)
- Schlippenbach Quartett ‎– The Hidden Peak (FMP)
- Milford Graves ‎– Meditation Among Us (Kitty)
- Albert Ayler Trio ‎– Spiritual Unity (ESP)
- Cecil Taylor ‎– Conquistador! (Blue Note)
- Sunny Murray ‎– Sonny's Time Now (Jihad)
and so on. Off course special mention goes to Brötzmann's design, to Lovens' label Po Torch and not at least to Marte Röling's Fontana/Debut cover design.

Elvin + Rashied!!

I have to admit I've never heard any Jeff Beck knowingly....Jimi Hendrix yes, but I would enjoy his music better if his bass and drums players would be better (sacrilege?)
Have you ever heard the one guitarist/bouzouki player which Hendrix has mentioned in an interview as an influence on his playing: Manolis Chiotis ;-)

kinabalu said...

Onx: I agree totally. The path of less lossness is the way to go!

I have the Clifford Thompson lp mentioned above - the one close to impossible to spell correctly. If you wanna have a go at it, Onx, be my guest. I did get a digital copy off the Different Perspectives site and it sounded perfectly OK to me. Sound quality was never Byg Actuel's strong side, always sounded a bit murky to me. I don't think his Garden of Harlem has ever been blogged, so maybe I should have a whack at that one.

Jarman and Mitchell - that's an interesting one. Often I wonder who is who when listening to old Art Ensemble records, but I might be getting a little bit closer.

Sleeves? I don't think any of the Bygs were particularly memorable nor for that matter any other jazz label. Blue Note had a certain, recognisable design in their day. Off the top of my head: the first Faust was spectacular and I have a weak spot for the prog labels of the 70s. They had a special style, though possibly dated by today's standards. But with cds the whole point of sleeve design fell out the window.

Hendrix, yes, but I find myself listening to acoustic players as well. John Fahey was special. I keep coming back to him. I might blog a few of his live performances. We'll see.

Rev. bIGhIG said...

Friends, if you're listening to your files through earbuds or computer speakers, or mass market headphones, lossless, 320, flac, etc. makes little difference to what you hear, even digital vs. analog. You guys running this stuff through an oscilloscope or just digging the tunes?

Anonymous said...

well, yeah, i agree that on the whole i used a lot of words and cutting definitions to convey the message, as i'm fueled with a hot blood, sorry couldn't make it laconically, but the seething is needed to raise a wave.
By the by, grabbed all Bengt Ernryd's just recently, really. Though heard only Love Chant for now, not that soft, one might think looking at the cover, good stuff. Thanks.

"Ketchaoua" from DPIMR is ~ vbr96-128mp3, i have i guess a "parent" mp3 copy to that one from Vitko, as it has the same frequency cut-off on 12-13khz. It does sounds ok, some old vinyls do sound worthily being converted to small bitrate lossy files.

Miloš and Igor, thanks for the support, by the way.


Andy said...

Just to say that I have on occasion ripped and posted an mp3 file as a flac (Gus' minidisc recordings). I didn't realise it was a crime. I have very high regard for Vitko and how he presents his posts. He is always kind enough to leave a thank you comment on this site. Nothing anyone has said against him has changed my opinion one jot.

Andy said...

Actually, I'm a bit confused.
Once a track is burned to cdr is it still a flac, wav, mp3? Or is it then something else? (a cd audio track?).
If I'm copying a cassette to cdr - what type of 'file' is it?
If Gus has copied his minidisc mp3 to cdr for me, does it make a difference if I rip it as a wav or mp3.
You might have thought I'd know all this basic stuff, but I don't. Education would be appreciated.

Ketchatrane-zo said...

Thanks to you all for having a neat discussion now. I just got done listening to that awesome album by Billy Bang called Vietnam Reflections, how soothing and moving! Glad to help triggering some fun, "Ketchaoua" is a very close-to-the-heart album for me, and Onx- you mentioned "Conquistador",man, for over 44years now that one has been a mystical experience, one that never fails to get me grinning from ear-to-ear at the sheer excitement the music inspires. We listened to all four Trane at the Vanguard cds last weekend-what a treat! The quartet with Dolphy, etc. is in fantastic form, the groove unbelievable. Later at night relived "Live in Seattle"... Onx, it's on to "Meditations" with Rashied and Elvin!!! What are you all listening to?
PS, Jarman on tenor can really lift your spirits sometimes!

Tantris said...

Andy – here’s my 2 cents.

If you are copying a cassette recording to CD, the cassette recording represents a lossless source, in analogue format. You can choose what file format will be used to encode this digitally on the CD. Formats such as wav or aiff are lossless, in that they record in digital format the full frequency range of the original source. These formats are relatively large in size, depending on what parameters you choose – commercial CD uses 16bit/44.1kHz, but you can increase the bit rate and sampling rates to get a higher resolution digital file, albeit with a larger file size. Flac is a compressed version of these formats (to reduce file size); when a flac file is played, it should unpack itself to the original uncompressed state.

Alternatively, you can choose a ‘lossy’ file format, such as MP3, in which case the digital format does not record the full frequency range of the source – to quote from Wikipedia; ‘MP3 lossy compression works by reducing (or approximating) the accuracy of certain parts of a continuous sound that are considered to be beyond the auditory resolution ability of most people. This method is commonly referred to as perceptual coding. It uses psychoacoustic models to discard or reduce precision of components less audible to human hearing, and then records the remaining information in an efficient manner.’ The benefit of MP3 is a much smaller file size, and in practice, MP3 recordings can be excellent – I’m very happy with radio recordings in mp2/mp3 format at 320 kbps, for example. I still have most of the files that were shared on Church Number Nine in MP3 format, even if I’ve gone out and found an LP or CD for many of these. However, when I’m making my own recordings, I will record in wav (usually 24bit/96kHz), or in a DSD format such as DSDDIFF, as I think these sound very lifelike, and better than many commercial CDs. The files I occasionally share here are mixed down to flac from these original file formats.

If you have a minidisc mp3 recording, you can’t improve the quality of the source by recoding it (or ‘upsampling’) back into a lossless format such as wav or aiff. Hence in most cases it’s probably best to present the original mp3 file. But sometimes upsampling can work well, and it’s worth experimenting to see what sounds good. To be honest, I think your cassette recordings are of excellent quality – I don’t think I’ve ever had to make allowances for poor quality sound when listening to them, and there can be a total focus on the music. So whatever you’re doing is working well!

Tantris said...

Hello Ketchatrane – Conquistador is a favourite for me also – I think I first listened to it after searching for Bill Dixon and Alan Silva recordings, rather than Cecil himself, courtesy of the CN9 blog. Silva’s bass weaves a beautiful and magic line through the entire album. There’s 22 years between this and the 1988 Berlin concerts, but the connection between them seems to me to be very strong. You’re also describing my favourite period for Coltrane – Transition is an LP I’ve been listening a lot to, lately, along with Interstellar Space and Cosmic Music. In terms of other music, my son has introduced me in the last year to a number of lieder cycles that I was not familiar with, including Brahm’s Vier ernste Gesänge, and Finzi’s settings of Thomas Hardy poems in ‘Earth and Air and Rain’, both of which have moved me deeply, and opened my ears in ways I was not expecting.

kinabalu said...

@Andy: I think Tantris covered your last two questions very well, so let me just respond to your first: Once a track is burned to cdr is it still a flac, wav, mp3? Or is it then something else? (a cd audio track?).

Well, it can be both. Burning software will give you a choice of whether you want to create a cd audio disc or a data disc. If the former, you will be limited to playing your files on a cd player. If the latter, you can play the files on any player or any computer that has the right software. I have a multi-purpose player, meaning I can play dvds, cds, mpg and mp3 files on it. Wav and flac files cannot be played on it, but there could be newer models that may give you that possibility.

For recordings, I use standard wav for music and then convert to whatever format is most convenient, but for speech, mp3 is good enough.

Lucky said...

Igor - I see your point, and I think you feel cheated by Vitko and want to express your anger. What you say is that you want to warn others about that, for my taste you make too many words for this issue, though. Over the years I got many great stuff from Vitko, and I respect him immensely for that - music I otherwise wouldn't have heard! And if he feels the need to cheat to get more attention, I can understand that, too - why not? Don't we all need compliments to get going? Didn't you ever cheat, Igor?

I prefer to be cheated by Vitko than moralized by you, Igor, to be true. And that's personal honest opinion by me, nothing fake.

Lucky said...

Here's a P.S. to the Igor incident - Vitko's reply on his blog, posted on August 3, 2016:

That looks like your honesty, I offer you my e-mail, and you still choose anonymous, hidden, insidious way, to pour insults around the corner, using harsh words, accusing and threatening without any arguments (oh yes, you have an opinion), and as far as modern technology, it is for you, it seems, is still completely unknown.
I wonder, did you by chance ever in life do something good for others, gave him something, share something nice with someone, as a human, simply, right from the heart and without obligation ...? I doubt.
At your honor."

So much to that.

Anonymous said...

as for the crime: there is a big difference between Ignorance and Profanation.
Several years ago, i pulled out an audio stream from video with a rare album, i couldn't find anywhere, from youtube using some software, which was recommended to me to do this. I thought that the audio stream is like a raw audio file, so i set the settings to grab it in wav, and then i converted my "wav"-file to flac and jubilantly put it on a site, where i was sharing music with like-minded guys, without bothering to indicate the source in description accompanied the link. Some time later, one of my boddies in a private conversation, when i told him, that there's a eurica-way to grab an audio-file from youtube, said to me that i did completely the wrong thing, because the audio-files inserted in those youtube videos are usually mp3s of 128khz and it's a seldom chance they have a higher bitrate and good quality.
I was very embarrased and felt guilty, cause some people have already downloaded the file i put. I removed the link and said i'm sorry. That was it. Since then i try to be way more responsible in such things and way less ignourant.
So maybe this whole thing is good for you? I think it is, as was for me.

i count, that it is a great thing, when one supports his friend. But having to encourage someone in cheating is like an acquiescence for detection, if you're on the same wave. I think there's no exсuses for those lies, that your friend has been feeding people consciously for years. You're saying that his doings were motivated by the desire to attract more attention to that music by converting other's mp3 to self "flac"? Oh, how sweet it is! This is ridiculous, there's no need to muzz.
If one's willing to share something good with people, that he has, and to attract more audience to some music, he does this, like Kinabalu:
If one's willing to make some benefits from what he has and he doesn't care about the people, he does this, like Vitko:
by magical moves of his deft hands turning the 25mb/128mp3-file to 208mb/128mp3-file.
Do you have an unlimited internet access? Yeah? You're lucky beggar!
Say hi to your friend.


Anonymous said...

and, Lucky, if you haven't noticed i quoted earlier some of Vitko's sentences from this answer you transported. I've sent him few messages through that post, which weren't published (why so, Vitko? because you have no desire to be exposed and to endanger your next manipulations?). I asked him to remove the links that lead to fake and to confess, or i'll have to open other's eyes by myself. His replies are charged with hypocrisy, and i have nothing to discuss with this muddy person in e-mail form. Then he decided to stick to his way of a cheater, putting more fake under SAKATA ORCHESTRA title - it is like sassy grinning...How dare this man to tell me something about the honor?
I'm done with this.
Be a man, Vitko.


Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
onxidlib said...

HI Igor,

removed your second try as it was already posted by you - it would have been redundant.
BTW - All comments posted at IS will moderated before appearing.
So sometimes it will need some time before one of us seesand releases it.
Very rarely they will be deleted for the obvious reasons as insulting or similar etc.

Anonymous said...

sorry for bothering with that 2nd try and overloading the space with novel-sized comments on lossy English, seemingly like pouring water into a sieve, but it's an important thing to dot the i's. Though it looks like the discussion turns into a hassle by me, whiles there are directions have appeared for more joyful conversation.
Let there be light and peace.


onxidlib said...

Hi Bozo,

"Vietnam Reflections" I haven't listened for some time now but I recall it fondly.

After hearing "Impressions" - my first exposure to Coltrane, was such an deep experience - I got "Live in Seattle" as a second. And then I really tried to get more from Coltrane eagerly.
"Meditations" I had to search for some years. In fact I didn't know about the album until 1996 whe I started to work at the music-store where I'm still active.

And "Conquistador" is dear to my heart. Last time I've listened to it was around last Christmas. What a line-up - wuite a dream-team for me and they hit it.

And that's pretty much what I was listening the last several weeks - in no particular order:

- John Surman - Morning Glory
- Woody Shaw, Louis Hayes ‎– The Tour Volume One
- Hopper / Dean / Tippett / Gallivan ‎– Cruel But Fair
- Al Neil Trio ‎– Retrospective - 1965-1968
- JACK Quartet plays Rodericus / Carter / Crawford Seeger / Haas
- Arditti Quartet plays Nunes / Zimmerlin / Feldman / Lachenmann
- Steve Swell Quintet ‎– Soul Travelers
- Sir Charles Thompson ‎– Takin' Off
- PaPaJo ‎– Spielä
- Randy Weston's African Rhythms ‎– Niles Littlebig
- Arthur Williams ‎– Forgiveness Suite
- Peter Kuhn ‎– No Coming, No Going – The Music of Peter Kuhn 1978-1979
- Irmler, Oesterhelt ‎– Formen
- Michel Portal ‎– Splendid Yzlment
- Michaela Melián ‎– Electric Ladyland
- Sylvie Courvoisier - Mark Feldman - Ikue Mori - Evan Parker ‎– Miller's Tale
- Fred Frith Trio ‎– Another Day In Fucking Paradise
- Eric Revis Trio ‎– Crowded Solitudes
- Sei Miguel ‎– (Five) Stories Untold
- Stephen Clarke + The JACK Quartet plays Horațiu Rădulescu
- Per Age Brandt / Karsten Vogel ‎– Cry!
- Pascal Niggenkemper Le 7ème Continent ‎– Talking Trash
- Parrinha / Lopes / Jacinto ‎– Garden
- Orchestra Eddie Sauter ‎– Eddie Sauter's Music Time
- Hugh Levick / Quatuor Diotima ‎– The Unimagined: Preparations For The Unknown
- Cadentia Nova Danica ‎– August 1966 Jazzhus Montmartre
- Finn Von Eyben ‎– Plays Finn Von Eyben
- Dmitri Shostakovich, Quatuor Danel (only the quartets no. 7, 8 and 12)
- Mangelsdorff & Mangelsdorff ‎– Early Discoveries
- Ole-Henrik Moe - Arditti Quartet ‎– Vent Litt Lenger
- Lucien Dubuis, Barry Guy, Alfred Vogel ‎– Heavy Metal Rabbit
- Gordon Beck Trio ‎– Gyroscope
- Henry Threadgill, Ensemble Double Up ‎– Old Locks And Irregular Verbs
- Joe Harriott Quintet - Jazz For Moderns

and an obscure 7" educational (for imporvising) vinyl called " Lilli Friedemann ‎– Einstiege In Neue Klangbereiche Durch Gruppenimprovisation".

"Black Paladins" with Jarman, Moye and Dyani I was listening at a friends place some month ago.

Andy said...

Dear Tantris and Kinabalu and Sotise. Thank you so much for your very kind responses. I can't quite seem to get my head in order to reply and make any sense at the moment, but I will soon. Apologies.

Miloš Latislav said...

Hi, I created facebook group for various announcements and discussions


Join :: Thanks

onxidlib said...

OK - you've did it - joined ;-)

Bobzo said...

I was going to mention Some Other Stuff, but Bobby Hutcherson-RIP: this is bad news-he was great,indeed!

chucklin'zobyrd said...

We had fun playing Donald Byrd's "Off To the Races" last night. Prestige and Blue Note classics will always lift your spirits, get you groovin' and mellow you right out, no matter what the time or situation. Donald Byrd, it's helpful to remember, had Lester Bowie among his fans! Jackie Mac sounded great,as usual, and Pepper Adam's bari added a great touch to the proceedings; what with Kelly,Jones and Art Taylor keeping things stoked.
Double-checking Bobby Hutcherson on "zon for stuff I may have missed, I realized I hadn't checked out a lot of later stuff of his, especially after the great groups with Harold Land.[Whose "The Fox" is one-of-those hidden whoppers out there];any suggestions,Solar Citizens?

Singin' in the rain-zoid said...

Just a quick word to Tantris - Noticed you mentioned Brahms Lieder; when my love of classical reawakened 12 years ago or so I would have never thought I would turn into a opera fan, but I have!, and then slowly but surely was able to enjoy a much wider range of choral music also. Except for a bit of Schubert/DF-G stuff ,lieder is still an unexplored area for me. I Love Brahms 2nd and 3rd symphonies a lot,I'm about 50/50 on his piano music, but thanks to you I will investigate his songs.
Onx, great playlist- one question- What is that Cadentia Nova 66 thing? Album, tape? Never heard of it. How 'bout switching to Bobby Hutcherson's picture at the top of the site? Good way to honor our fallen musical heroes!

Tantris said...

Hello Singin' in the rain-zoid -

Here's something you might be interested in. It's an orchestral arrangement of Brahms' 'Vier ernste Gesänge', by the modern German composer Detlev Glanert, which I think is very successful;

Detlev Glanert:
4 Präludien und Ernste Gesänge für Bariton und Orchester (2004/05) nach "Vier Ernste Gesänge" op. 121 von Johannes Brahms

Russell Braun (Bariton)
Radio-Sinfonieorchester Stuttgart
Leitung: Stéphane Denève
Stuttgarter Liederhalle, 15th April 2016


Also, if you want a good version of the normal arrangement for bass voice and piano, the Wigmore Hall live version with Robert Holl & Roger Vignoles is a good 'un, for not a lot of money;


Cheers, Tantris

Tanned said...

Thanks,T-really appreciate it.ANy fan's of Ginastera's cello music out there? Many eons ago I was lucky enough to stand in the back at a concert featuring his wife on cello. Truly unforgettable performance.I know there must be european radio shows coming out-the-kazoo for classical-lovers!

Andy said...

Wouldn't you know it? The only time I've ever posted anything which I've downloaded. Sorry guys, as akaboshi14 pointed out,on the Louis Stewart album tracks 5 and 6 were the same. Unfortunately, I don't have the wherewithal to correct things so I've deleted it rather than offer something not right. The original download must have been like that. So if anyone does have Louis Stewart - I Thought About You, in it's completeness, a contribution would be most welcome. Thanks, and apologies.

Andy said...

Going back to my query and helpful comments from Tantris and Kinabalu re converting music files. I've honed my confusion (or realisation) down to this: If I have an audio disc made from an mp3 file which I want to upload, I would rip it as a wav for an identical copy. If I ripped it as mp3 it would be a lesser, lossier copy. Correct?
ps Are most people not burning their downloads to cdr? And not having boxes and boxes of the bloody things? What is the preferred way of listening from files to hifi? Thanks

Miloš Latislav said...

Andy, once it is lossy mpeg (mp3), it will never ever will became lossless anything. You can convert to anything, the loss is there during the way. Easy.

Miloš Latislav said...

If you will convert flac to wav and burn it out to cd, it is full CD quality information, as flac is lossless comprimation format. Mp3 (ogg, aac, wma [microsoft, not compatible with anything], m4a [apple, not compatible with anything]) is lossy. About https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3

Nick said...

Hi Andy

You can play files from your PC to your stereo through software (e.g. Foobar can play pretty much every file type and resolution) and a DAC (digital-to-analogue converter). These can range from USB sticks (Audioquest Dragonfly, Cambridge Dacmagic) to high end units costing thousands. You can plug a mini RCA cable from the USB stick to amp, pre-amp or headphone amp, or some models include a headphone driver in the stick.

Otherwise amps may have digital inputs that you can connect to directly, e.g. I have my mini-PC linked via S/PDIF and a Toslink cable to the amp.

I have all my music files - including backups! - on external hard drives in our study and also networked to the mini-PC in the living room.

Andy said...

Hey, thanks so much Nick. That's really helpful. Some new words to google. Appreciated.

Tantris said...

Hello Andy;

On your first question. There is a hierarchy from lossless formats (eg, wav, aiff, dsd, alac), to lossy formats (eg, mp3). You can reduce the size of a file by moving from lossless to lossy, but this also reduces the resolution quality of the audio. However, even if you go backwards in the hierarchy, and upsample a lossy file to a lossless format, you can’t improve the audio quality. If a file is already in mp3 format, just stick with that. Audio quality is determined by the resolution of the source.

Within lossless files, there is also a hierarchy, from higher resolution (eg wav at 24bit / 172 kHz, DSD at 1 bit / 5.6mHz) or to lower resolution (eg CD quality at 16 bit / 44.1 kHz), but many people say that can’t hear any difference at the higher resolutions. There is also a hierarchy of quality in mp3 files – 320kbps is much better than 128kbps, for example.
A flac file is a compressed version of any of these file formats, to save storage space on a hard disk – it is uncompressed back to the original format when it is played back (a bit like a zip file).

On your second question. There are many ways to play audio files on a computer through a hi fi, some of which have been described by Nick. In addition, if you have a wifi network, you can stream the audio from your computer into a DAC, which can be connected to your amplifier (or integrated into your amplifier). I have an old valve amp, so I stream from my computer to an Apple TV box (version 3, with an optical output), which connects to a DAC, which is connected to the amplifier. Neither the Apple TV, nor the DAC were expensive, and there are cheaper options than the Apple TV if you look around. Alternatively, you can buy a dedicated streamer, which connects to your wifi, includes a DAC, and which can be connected to the amplifier. The attraction of some of these devices is that they can retain the resolution of the files being streamed (eg, 24 bit / 96 kHz), whereas the Apple TV will downsample the audio stream to 24 bit (or 16 bit) / 44.1kHz.

I hope this helps,

-- T

Andy said...

@Tantris. Yes that helps a lot. Thank you.

But (sorry) I need to be quite clear. In the situation I described, wouldn't ripping what was an mp3 file on a cdr as an mp3 be like photocopying a photocopy ie inferior to the original? If so, that is why I suggest ripping as a wav. I know it doesn't make it better, but it doesn't make it worse.

Thanks very much for you time. Andy

Tantris said...

Hello again Andy,

My understanding is that copying a file is not like photocopying a photocopy, as you will get a copy of the original file, not a slightly degraded copy.

-- T

Andy said...

@Tantris. Thanks again. You're going to hate me, but I'm going to embarrass myself one more time in slightly different words.

If Gus records a gig on his minidisc player as an mp3 file the sound is compressed. Gus copies that recording onto a cdr and sends it to me. I want to upload this to share on the great Inconstant Sol. If I rip it as a mp3, will it not compress it further? So I'm inclined to rip it as a wav for an exact copy.

Similarly, if I've downloaded an mp3 file, burned to a disc, deleted the file...then later want to share etc etc

I'll get there.

Tantris said...

Hi Andy - I'll stick my neck out, and say that in both of those circumstances, you'll get an exact copy of the original mp3 file, and won't compress it further. If you upsample it to a wav file, you'll simply get a larger file (but there is no harm in doing so, and it's definitely worth listening to both, in case you can hear a difference). If anyone thinks differently, please correct me if I'm wrong!

Cheers, T

sotise said...

I want to correct a possible misunderstanding here, Igor if you are still reading..... this is for you everyone who has ripped a lot of vinyl and researched the basics of doing so knows that , for one thing the programs that assess the probability of lossiness in files , are not infallible ... i'll give you an example i once ripped a Mary Lou Williams record from the 70's and Traders Little helper determined that 2 of the tracks were mpeg with 95% probability ..... Impossible given that the files had not been processed in anyway .... the program was simply wrong!.....

which brings me to my next point using too much noise reduction, de crackle , and compression , and pouring digital syrup over a vinyl rip is guaranteed to produce a reading of lossiness, people are unfortunately now conditioned by the heavily compressed sound of Modern Mastering particularly in Popular musics, and Classical music... so that is the sound they come to think of as good ... everything for maximum presence , no light an shade or space around individual instruments.... Igor's accusation of beefing up Mp3's found on rutracker or whatever is absurd... how can you know that anyway with any certainty ?

Vitko is at most using to much syrup .. and his volume levels are almost hot , not enough for distortion... but too loud for my taste, but so are many peoples .. that is conditioning from CD mastering in the last 20 years... even Jazz is afflicted to a certain extent Rudy Van Gelders digital re masters sound horrible to my ears compared to what he had originally achieved in the Analog era...but tastes change , fashion dictates....remember drum machines and electronic drums back in the 80s , i thought they sucked ... but everyone was doing it...just like every pop band is now using pitch altering programs for voices, one reason they all sound so anodyne... Bob Dylan, Neil Young , Nina Simone , and dozens of iconic legends occasionally sang out of tune without the music suffering particularly ... so it all comes down to fashion amongst record producers

Besides Igor -Anon/ Anon Igor who appointed you lossless chief of police???? its all a matter of personal taste .... personally i'll take a crackly lp over the pristine airless compressed sound of most modern CDS any..day .....
someone accused me of Stealing lucky's MP3's of Paul Bleys Mr Joy once and passing them off as lossless, simply because the waveform was the same... the Waveform is an indicator of the music nothing else .... ignorance is blissfully rampant everywhere especially amongst collectors of other peoples Vinyl rips !!

sotise said...

i hope i made it clear that i dont believe Vitko is cheating , and that perhaps you Igor are ignorant, not He.... how much Vinyl have you ripped ? and shared.... to me the Anal lossless police running round filesharing sites with their measuring tools for quantifying lossiness is abhorrent... especially when they dont know what they are talking about...

...F..kwits.. waving their graphs and wave forms ... one of the reasons i no longer share in public .....i say get a fucking life , read a good book go and engage in some cunnilingus or sodomy ...grow some broad beans!

Listen to what you already have... buy some records...stop amassing terabytes of files others have shared which will sit on a drive unlistened to.

hopefully this comment will pass muster with the mod,s i am no longer one myself , i'm sick of Igor/anons presumptuous, abusive ignorance ....

Another thing just occurred to me .. do an experiment if you are using Traders little helper .. Rip a record at say 24-48, instead of the usual 16-44, then downsample to regular wavs , half of the time or more the files will be read as probably lossy....in fact such a program cannot accurately measure or even read the lossiness of a file larger than 16-44 wav

Igor finally i want to spell it out just my own humble opinion , iI dont buy your lossless idealism as a motive for a nasty vicious attack .... i think you are either jealous or ... i'll leave the rest to your imagination

Miloš Latislav said...

Sotise! Well.

Miloš Latislav said...

Nod Y - I arleady announced earlier I will upload mp3 @ 320 version from musica degradata. I can not upload it now anywhere else than on mega. Creating account there will cost you approx. 1 minute and dowloading works almost perfectly and quickly with their MegaSync extension. Otherwise you can go to http://musicadegradata.blogspot.cz/2013/01/contact-trio-double-face-1975.html and try unfriendly rapidgator, as I did.

Anonymous said...

actually i really have no desire to discuss on this topic further here. But since you are addressing some of your words to me, i'll answer them.
They are obviously come from your slight view on what exactly lossy and lossless formats are and how to distingish one from another technically issue; what the transcode is and why people do that kind of stuff. Trader little helper? - never heard about this thing and decidedly it isn't a good helper for the one who's willing to check his audio-files, if it's unable to generate spectrograms. You should use the soft, which allows you to check spectrograms to see the guts of the files - their frequencies, like Adobe Audition, Spek, Audacity, Izotope, Sonic Visualiser etc.
Here's some info on subject, which is a better "little helper" for that matter: https://www.whatinterviewprep.com/prepare-for-the-interview/spectral-analysis/

And here's a table of peak frequencies for mp3 CBR, when Lame encoder is used (except it's old versions, like 3.93.1):
320 kbps ~ 20000-20500 Hz
256 kbps ~ 19500-19700 Hz
224 kbps ~ 19000-19400 Hz
192 kbps ~ 18000-19000 Hz
160 kbps ~ 16500-17500 Hz
128 kbps ~ 16000 Hz
112 kbps ~ 14000-15000 Hz
The data presented in each case may differ slightly in one direction or another depending on the version of the encoder, encoding parameters (there is even a setting that changes the value of the limit frequency), and even the material itself.
There can be other data when Fraunhofer codec is used, which is a lot less popular, than Lame. Although, for example, Fraunhofer encoder is built in iTunes.
(to be continued...)


Anonymous said...

Anyway, i've put quite a few links in previous comments for people to eye the guts of Vitko's bubble-files, did you check them out? I bet, even if you did, you had no idea what it's all about there, saying "i don't believe Vitko is cheating" and telling about waveforms, while i'm pointing on a different way of representing the sound...it's never too late to improve your own knowledge i'd say.
To be fair, there is such a conception like "lossy mastering" to note, but, like "clipping", it is a modern days trend, that's true - there was no such crap in the old times. And as for the standart 22000Hz+ frequency peak level for 16-44 lossless files - yes, there are exceptions, for example, i've noticed some rips of early 80s Soul Note records have ~20800Hz peaks, though they are from real CDs, but when someone provides regularly "lossless" files with from 13 to 20khz cut-offs, there's only one explanation of such a phenomenon and it has been given. And if in addition to that he obviously grabs some fotos of LPs from ebay and other online-stores (yes, he does), then marks them like "made by me", no doubt you come to be on the "illusionist" show.
How can i be sure Vitko took CD-rips from rutracker and had put them in his blog under the guise of LPs? I've made metadata comparison, using CUETools, you can check the reports - it's all there, if you haven't noticed. You can download the soft and the files and check them by yourself, paying attention to dates of corresponding uploads on rutracker and DPIMR. Arm with the tools and info i suggest, and try an experimental method to be able to assess the situation adequately, cause now you're not.
By the way, i didn't call Vitko ignorant, that bombshell was launched to Andy's pool good-naturedly!)). Regarding Vitko's nasty practice i used the word profanation, and i also called this man a hypocrite among the other definitions. Besides those i must add one more: a coward.
Jealous? Of what? Vitko's fame and glory?)) I'm not that egocentric, sotice). It could be suitable, say for Lucky, who appeared with this sick sentence: "And if he feels the need to cheat to get more attention, I can understand that, too - why not? Don't we all need compliments to get going? Didn't you ever cheat, Igor?" (in other words saying "to cheat and lie for collecting compliments is absolutely OK"). Ego is like a wild horse. I try to tame mine.
One of my buddies was followed DPIMR for some time, he has a slow internet speed and is limited to 500mb and 5$ a day. Sure thing there are more people who have their limitations around, but who sees them except wide-eyed Bozo here?
Lossless idealist? You treat me wrong. I'm just a guy in "F..k the hypocrisy" t-shirt.

As for the digital greediness you're blaming and life hacks which were provided i'm totally agree with you...there also are some momentous perfect hit thoughts of yours in 9greychairs "So anyway" thread.


sotise said...

Igor, just to specify i'm no friend of Vitko's,i once refused to link his blog here way back because he was mostly sharing available stuff, that said i have nothing against him i dont download much anymore because i have more than i can listen to....

I'm sorry if i was borderline abusive in those last comments, i just feel that you are overreacting ... how can you accuse someone of theft without proof... you are making a specific accusation that vitko's files are not ripped by him from his collection but stolen and passed off as lossy when they are not, i'm saying that heavy handed use of digital cleaning problems is the culprit... if you go back through the pages of this blog , i'm certain that many of mine and nick's and Ernst's vinyl rips show up as being Lossy through inexperience and in my case early on
pure and simple incompetence i didn't know what i was doing , it wasn't a matter of deliberate lossy mastering.. i personally believe that the less done in that respect the better..
The Stuff clearly comes from Vitko's collection... show me the Ebay store that he is taking his photos from... the photos are much larger than those used by sellers on Ebay.

The guy is sharing publicly and as far as i can see its clearly a labour of love ...whether or not one agrees with his choices is a different issue ... he is sharing ... my question is why take such palpable delight in tearing him down, casting aspersions and being downright nasty ... anyone spending so much time sharing and discussing the music they like deserves a modicum of respect...

i'm the opposite, i have a blind loathing of and contempt for big industrial file sharing operations like Avax and many others who make money from files with no regard for the Artists... so i'm grateful for personal blogs like vitko's ....surely You have better things to do with your time than constant carping, why dont you show us how its done? rip some rare vinyl and share it here in the contributions.

those programs you mention are all well and good but they are geared to windows and Mac which i no longer use, i switched to linux and can no longer use such programs nor would i want to
if something doesn't sound good who cares i have vinyl and cds to listen to.
Anyway good luck to you if the most you can do is run around policing the orthodoxy of other peoples digital files... Have you ever heard of Digital Rot?... its happening i have cds that no longer play , i have a criterion Ozu box set where 2 of the discs wont play through.
I have DVDS and CDs that will rip ok but wont play through.... NOTHING IS FOREVER in this life.

As in many areas WE HAVE BEEN SOLD A LIE... we are paying for worthless degradable bits of plastic, that were supposed to be durable, and superior in every way to vinyl.

Scraps said...

See, now, Igor, I can't get involved in this discussion, for the most part, because I haven't got the knowledge. But sometimes you say something like this:

'obviously grabs some fotos of LPs from ebay and other online-stores (yes, he does), then marks them like "made by me" '

Note the 'obviously', and note that you didn't do the proof. How do you know it's 'some fotos of LPs from ebay [made by others]'? You say 'obviously', you go on to say 'yes, he does', as though your doubling-down on your assertion makes us less likely to notice that you didn't provide proof.

Because you use language like 'coward' and 'hypocrite', and yet you skip the proof that I can check (not much!), so far, you look like Joseph McCarthy to me.


sotise said...

I ought to have added our lives are so brief it seems like such a waste to spend them attacking others one doesn't agree with or spending ones time sniffing out un orthodoxy... love and respect are more rewarding .... i've come to believe that filesharing is a hollow souless activity at the level that many do it, amassing millions of files one can only gloss over and not even hear properly , or hear only in a distracted way until the next album comes along .... of course the same can be said of any material addiction ... and its understandable when one considers the life changing effect music can have .... the problem is quantity , and as a Japanese music loving record dealer once put it to me in conversation, there is a big difference between a music lover and a record collector!

Nick said...

I have a life, off-line, in which I try and care for people with PTSD, currently about 120 people out of around 210 that I try and care for overall. I have a personal life, off-line, in which my parents were hospitalized, then in long term care, my wife's mum died, her brother had a heart attack and my daughter nearly died. I have commented gently on this thread about context and perspective, but to be honest, if people have no perspective, I would prefer to exclude them from the site.

I have found most people here to be positive and encouraging, so I appreciate their contributions in return.

sotise said...

Nick, I'm sorry for your pain and loss , hopefully your daughter has recovered or is well on the way to doing so best wishes

sotise said...

oh ... Igor when i used the term jealous i wasn't referring to kudos for his blog or rips but to his record collection ... he obviously has some nice things.... as for Kudos who would do this for kudos , as far as i'm concerned all kudos go to musicians and Labels.....

another thought on what you call lossy mastering , its obviously much more common than people think since many commercial factory bought cd's and even lps show some mpeg content .... and its not just bootleg labels either... compression and other syrupy/ sweetening tools... seem to be the main culprit!

Lucky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Beck-ola-zo said...

Nick, Best wishes for your daughter's health; hope she's getting better! There are things that are important, like the health of our loved ones, and then there is things that aren't! Since I missed the whole expensive coffee,tattoo,computer/social media download, sometimes I feel like I can contribute "outside the box" views here and there--but I'm sure I'm kidding myself! The intensity of this recent discussion has surprised me, but I've learned from it to...
That was a great point that record-collecting and being a music-lover can certainly clash; it's basically the story of my life! But I know I feel more love from my cats sitting on my chest asking for a scratch then I do when the latest box from Amazoid comes, even though I can't wait to open it![ On a job resume I once put occupation? record collector! but they didn't think that was funny.]
There is another site where where people keep track of the price used, scratchy Blue Notes and Prestiges go for-- and I'm thinking about all that extra cash to upgrade[?] your copy of Mobley's "The Flip" from a reissue to an "Original" could buy a whole lot of extra copies to give to people you meet and turn them on to jazz!
A bit of this last controversy also reminds me of guys with $30,000 hi-fi's who would NEVER play an old Bruno Walter if there life depended on it...Keep rockin' everyone!

sotise said...

@lUCKY... I LOVE YOU TOO MAN!!... let it be known that before 2006 i had never touched a computer,in either late 06 or early 07 a female friend desirous of convincing me of the error of my cynicism googled a record we were listening too (at my insistence)where upon we found ourselves alighting on a blog many may remember fondly Church#9 where people of like mind habitually thrilled to low quality mp3's of rare albums. ... one of those being Herr Lucky (Kinabalu, Glmlr and other friends and visitors here being among them), Luckyit turned out also had a very personal blog named Orange Aural..
The beginning of a cherished virtual friendship and exchange of ideas on just about anything !

... to cut to the main point Lucky taught me more than a few things about the mechanics of Blogging which was not as operationally smooth as it is now ... so if not for Lucky i'm almost certain we would not be here specifically, engaged in discussion or whatever this is now.... there would be no Inconstant Sol.... Lucky also briefly came on board for one week or so ... posting just one album...

I remember early on arguing the merits of Flac vs MP3... Lucky was contra for quite a while , whilst i became a lossless fanatic .. i NOW deeply regret shifting to FLACS.. in so many ways it was a mistake and Lucky it appears you and Antanase, and Boromir and many others arguing against the shift to FLAC were correct for various reasons!

... we the relatively few FLAC fascists . had no idea where it would lead... and it has lead to unsavory places and practices detrimental to a lot of artists and potential Artists..... what is the point of releasing a CD in any genre when within a few weeks in all likelihood if the music is good it will end up all over the web in full lossless glory with hi res scans etc ..
with file sharers and hosts making whatever money they can effectively robbing developing artists and labels of any income!...... circulation of files shared in public can hardly be contained ...a few good things have come from this culture i guess , places like destination out with the FMP digital store .....and Bandcamp in general ... question is who is buying? , quite a few great albums and musicians get very little paying custom ...

Back in late 06 early 07 people were absolutely ecstatic finding a rare Brotz or Frank Wright album at 120kb... frenzied excitement, discussion, euphoria in spades , are people any happier now with bulging hard drives full of FLACS, and a huge number of like minded blogs covering almost every release from the esoteric and oop to brand new releases or in some cases leaked pre releases..

NO i very much doubt it and to me it seems that much which was good about the community seems to have vaporised around the time of that change from lossy to lossless...

we have contributed to the disgusting growth of those hideous digital file factories like Avax and others where it seems people prefer to feed corporate filehosts therefore enriching the admins and themselves .. arguably siphoning money from labels and robbing artists effectively redirecting the funds to gangsters...

i'm as guilty as anyone its only the last 2 or 3 years that i have stopped paying filehosts for accounts..first it was rapidshare, then megaupload .. ifichier ... that said i never received a cent in return although rapidshare paid people in free accounts back then...... now Basta never again ... its 1.30 am

i'll call it quits now before this turns into some weepy Maoist public confession of political sins ...

Anonymous said...

you distort my words describing Vitko, i never used those, like theft or stolen, and in this situation they aren't suitable in my mind. I've presented enough of proof to show the wrong perspectives of that room and to explain the definitions i really used regarding it's owner, and if you have a lack of understanding of some aspects and not able to make an analysis and check the evidence by yourself, how can you state that digital cleaning problems is the culprit in this particular case? By the way, i guess Audacity is ok with linux, and some of your early rips sound sharper and more detailed and are better to my ears than later versions, but
you shared what you called it.
I can see that in your and some others minds Vitko-the blogger is a good guy with the flowers in his hands, who creates something and makes people around happy, and Igor-anonymous is nothing but the bad one sniffing around, armed with incomprehensible measuring devices, who's being angry and jealous, person, which just barks and bites, and tries to ruin what the good fellow builds, some churlish meanie or whatever))). You're saying "i have a blind loathing of and contempt for big industrial file sharing operations like Avax and many others who make money from files with no regard for the Artists... so i'm grateful for personal blogs like vitko's", but firstly, it seems like Vitko switched from "available" to mostly "unavailable" content just couple of years ago, and the secondly, he switched to the bubble blowing, which again can be easily tested if desired. I, in turn, have a contempt to bubble-file sharing operations in DPIMR, with no actual regards for the followers, when the contributor is making up and fooling his audience, is it for money, or for compliments or whatever the hell he needs.
On the issue of the distribution of my personal energy, i'll tell you what. I live in a post-comunistic country with super high corruption level and many different society's diseases, and the undeclared war is going on, and much more maddening stuff i'm sick of. I can leave it and suck the coconut juice and the creole girl tit on the beach and enjoy the sea waves some peaceful place (actually i can't, i have my family to care of, it's figuratively). But i love the land i live and respect the fair people around and i understand that if there would be no one to denounce the vices, to protest and fight the system, then the corruptionists, and the conquerors, and the cheaters will suck the fresh blood out of the country and It will rot. Hope you will get my point and nature of my reaction.
As for the fotos from ebay, i saw some with special integrated data in some of Vitko's archives, for example, take a look on the one marked by him with an LP on the floor here http://differentperspectivesinmyroom.blogspot.com/2016/08/toshiyuki-miyama-and-new-herd-live-new.html#comment-form - this is zakz303's background http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Herd-Toshiyuki-Miyama-Perspective-Japan-LP-1976-Master-Sonic-SW-7031-Insert-/232058114984?hash=item3607bdd3a8:m:mptngr9EaR3wCBBZTA63eBQ . Why bothering to make a mark on ebay foto? The lossy guts of a track from the archive:
I don't care where the rest of the fotos came from, if you'll ask.

well, i gave the arguments in support of my words relatively to the issue in question, but honestly it's becoming like to dig up the dirt for me.

Let there be light and peace.


Nick said...

Hi and thanks for the caring. I've not met any of you in person, but do appreciate many of you. I was reacting to feeling that I come here for enjoyment and not to deal with someone else's anger over someone else's blog. I should follow my own advice and disengage from that. Displacing some hurt, probably.

sotise said...

Igor man yep i take your point the background is similar in Vitko's photo, perhaps even exactly the same, some of what you are saying though is absurd , a caricature of my perceptions , which i really don't accept or appreciate.... i as i said i dont know vitko, i haven't downloaded a file from his blog for at least 6 months... i dont believe he is a knight in shining Armour and that you are the prince of darkness i don't see things in black and white... the difference between vitko or any blog and a place like Avax is the personal nature of the reflections comments etc , you see or hear a distinctive voice who cares about what he is sharing ..

. i'm talking not just about Vitko's but most small blog's ... its the difference between junk food and a decent home cooked meal .... i really dont care if Vitko is cheating ... .... i care about Music , not digital files... i delete digital files , months ago i deleted at least a thousand records i had downloaded, many unlistened to...to me its utilitarian they are files... ... living to accumulate is not a rewarding way of existing ...

Even if you are correct in everything you say, who fucking cares ... not I, how you can compare the crime of faking losslessness in a digital file , with the oppression of a corrupt political system is beyond me ....incomprehensible really!.... perhaps you are Vitko for all i know and you have a massive self estime problem ... perhaps you and vitko are involved in some elaborate prank or hoax colluding out of boredom.... some kind of perverse wager....

as for photos from ebay in the early days of music blogs including this one people ripped their album to mp3, took a photo off the web.. and posted it , no flacs , no scans , no info file, the info was similarly cut and pasted ... the idea was that if you liked the Album, you would seek it out and buy it...if you were lucky you got a few ruminations of a personal nature by the blogger or more likely a cut and paste from AMG 'a Scott Yanow review... whatever.

i miss that era ...something has been lost ... when i say i hate Avax and industrial file sharer sites which that place typifies in my mind perhaps i exaggerate i simply dont go there..

its not the people or posters its the format the structure i find abhorrent ..people are just people doing what they can to get by.

but i have no desire to accumulate every cd ever released under an artists name ..... even if Vitko is deceiving people at least he is sharing his thoughts in a way that appears honest and personal... that deception is pretty low on my list of earth shaking crimes...

Anonymous said...

oh, come on, are you kidding me?))) Of course, i don't measure one scale the effects from Vitko's tricks and from oppression of a corrupt political system, all i meant to say is that i'm an activist, man. It's in my mind, it's in my blood. That's the nature of my reaction on Vitko's doings, if one's wondering why the hell i came with my message and thoughts. Some see shit happens, say "oh, wtf..." and just pass by, some say "HEY, WTF?!" (Marc Maron's influence detected) and try to stop that, i've told this before.
If more participants of this discussion would at least know what the spectrogram shows, i wouldn't use so many letters and be forced to look at that blog's viscera so closely under the microscope myself to reveal it to the others, i don't find no pleasure or satisfaction in this. Some readers doesn't care if Vitko shares not what he calls it and decieves those who visit his place, some would like to be aware of that kind of things. As for the definitions were used, i call a spade a spade, if i see a spade.

And the last. Avax is the people. The system is the people. The devastation is in the heads.
Thank you sincerely for the music and some great thoughts. I really do appreciate them.


File Mignon,your zoness? said...

Moderators report for duty! Moderators report for duty! On an outer space site I belong to, they would never let this get so out-of-hand. This place needs to maintain it's dignity [no snickering, please!]. It's called Inconstant Sol, not The Uranus files...
Seriously, this site is long since become one of the top go-to places for history, background, collected knowledge and even sometimes wisdom, on a very important piece of the musical-pie; someday scholars and fans alike will be using it as a reference, so let's all get back to music and fun. I know the clown says some stupid stuff,too,so no-finger-pointing, let's get back to telling Andy how great his tapes are,A.O. !zo

sotise said...

yeah right Bozo Mignon.... we have spent too much time here discussing someone else's policeman predilections... Bozo did you know that mignon means cute in French?

Lucky said...

Nick - I come her for enjoyment, too. When I read what sotise writes about the blogging past and also about me, I feel great warmth and love, something which I rarely tell anybody, except very close people.

In the early time of my blogging activities I was a big admirer of Moogpower - I rarely liked the music he posted, but I adored his positivity, his openness and kind replies to commenters. I guess that's how I want to be: kind and positive, not cynical, aggressive or bitter. I prefer to focus on people I care for, sometimes I only try.

sotise, I LOVE YOU, TOO - especially your wonderful passion! :)

Anonymous said...

i'm surprised unpleasant enough how jazz & progressive music -in general- listeners & intellectuel persons as well, have such flexible ethics (Vitko et cie) . I was also surprised that persons in the same vein, have such confusion in their heads for defend such practice,like nothing was happened .
Sorry i also have an opinion (like an asshole as Dirty Harry said).
I consider that when somebody share something , make it as it is, not disguise a Trabant to Maserati ( last upload of V. -V. for vendetta?- is in 16 96 . What technological achievement is this ?, i really can't understand) .It isn't only cheating by itself but it's abuse of confidence, if i express it clear.
I also consider that when somebody use these dirty tricks, the least we can do is to turn our thumb down & show him our middle finger lift up. So simply.
There is only ONE REASON to applaud V. - Lord, set a guard upon my lips- .
He is the INVENTOR of "fFLAC" or " F-l-AC". Applaud, or spit at him. Choice is yours.
And V. return straight to kindergarten, music isn't for underages from view.

PS. I want to make a question if you permitted it,
How many (%) of In ConstantSol's uploads is FLAC ?
How many (%) of In ConstantSol's uploads is fFLAC or in common words monkey business?
Your response in just two numbers is pretty enough for me , not to be fatigue for me
thank you for great music lossless or lossy but not for - if there is- counterfeit Luis Vuitton bags.

sotise said...

All my uploads from day one Igor were false FLAC taken from rutracker ,bandcamp streams , avax.... just to Fuck with d...s ,like you ... you had better go back and analyze the files... produce, perhaps even publish a report, to submit to the File Sharing Commissioner... section 3-21, free improvisation, jazz and other sundry non-popular musics of the later half of the 20,century

Lucky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kpopzo said...

Ahhh, A week and a half of quiet, how nice. So peaceful here; like listening to Cage's "4.33' in a spring meadow...

Ernst Grgo Nebhuth said...

Something else.....

I wish you all a

Anonymous said...

is offline. Problems or in print? I have the CD, if necess.

Miloš Latislav said...

Re: Koglmann - Use of Memory - I had the problem publishing comment with link - says Bad request - Error 400. Anybody experienced the same?

jeff said...

Hi all at Sol
Have been pouring through all the orchiddoctor recordings I have and doing alot of listening and some research. I was checking some info on your AEC post of '76 Empty Foxhole. Holy shit some of the things I don't have from that list carville put up!! But anyways orchiddoctor himself put up an email for any questions and in all honesty I tried to email him today, but the email is no longer good. Scoured the web and haven't seen many signs of him in the last couple of years.
Really I was just sending an email to say hi and tell him how much I appreciate his recordings (because they are pretty great) and just send thanks and well wishes.
Sadly, typed up this letter hit send and it failed.
Didn't know if anyone here kept in touch w/ him or carville so I could forward it.
Just put a bit of thought and time into it and would like it to reach him if at all possible. Any help would be appreciated.

martin said...

(Belated) Many happy returns on your 10th birthday.

Anonymous said...

Why, on occasion, does a post to your blog turn up listed in other blogs that is not current but 2-3 days ahead of your current blog? I'm not crazy. It's happened several times.

Ernst Grgo Nebhuth said...

This happens when I prepare a post for a later date and give it it a try wether it works as I intended. Then I put it back to draft status. That's all.

Farmer Allan said...

Just noticed that I've been shutout of DARKER SHADE of BLUE since mid-September. Can someone tell me how or where to request re-admittance? Or is there bad news? Thanks! And thanks for this wonderful blog?

Ernst Grgo Nebhuth said...

Darker Shade Of Blue has gone private.
One could ask for membership some days before it went underground.

correct silence said...

Here is an interesting story. Some month ago I have downloaded from « different perspectives in my room » the rip of Phil Woods And His European Rhythm Machine « Live At Montreux 72 », here is the link to this post made by Vitko:
If you check you can see that this post is from December 22, 2016 and it is described as a flac version, it means lossless and yes the weight of the file is 508 mo.
I never owned this lp but a friend of mine did and I was almost sure that this lp was not in mono but in stereo, but the file provided by Vitko is in mono. This morning I wanted to check if my memory was right and started to search on the web to find if eventually someone have posted some extracts of this lp on youtube. Nobody have posted it on youtube but I found another rip of this lp from GeroviJazz, a blog unknown to me, here is the link:
The post is from December 2011 and is in fact an update of an older post from 2009. The file is an mp3 and the weight is less than 50 mo, so it is a 192 or 128. It didn’t matter because I just wanted to check the question of the mono or stereo of the original recording. But when I compared the two files, my surprise was big to notice that it was the same. The first track start suddenly in both case and in the end of this track, surface noises of both lp are exactly the same. No doubt when you compare carefully with earphones, it is exactly the same file. The problem is that the post made by Vitko is not the older but the recent one, you see what I mean?
So how many post made by Vitko and described as lossless are in fact files in mp3 that comes from others blogs?
It seems that for some people the fact to create a blog is more a showcase of narcissism: « Wow you have a endless record collection man! » But how is the value of a narcissism built on fake? You could reply that it doesn’t matter because those are free downloads, yes it is precisely because it is free and that there is no financial stake that it is ridiculous to lie. That is why I say that for this guy, the purpose is less sharing music than find a recognition.

propylaen2001 said...

A Darker Shade Of Blue Revisit seems to have morphed into an invitation only blog.
I'd appreciate if someone could send me an invitation. Thanks in advance.

Ernst Grgo Nebhuth said...

Hi propylaen2001 - if you send me an email address I'll forward your request.
You can mail me via my blooger account - as usual ;-)

marten 512 said...

So, . . . I was ill. Nothing terminal and I'm better now. Hooray. And I 'm off the meds. Hooray . . . except that . . . I suddenly don't understand a whole lot of the music I used to listen to. And I have started to enjoy stuff I wasn't interested in before (Haydn's Piano Trios, Mats Ek, Jiri Kylian etc).
Its very disconcerting.
Has anybody else had this happen?

Scraps said...

I had that experience, ten years ago, when I had a stroke. Even more, lots of foods and drinks that I used to enjoy suddenly I disliked, and vice versa.

Miloš Latislav said...

Yeah friends. It might be temporary, or we can call it dimensional shift. I am experiening same from time to time, but usually it has temporary character.

Ernst Grgo Nebhuth said...

Hi Marten - I've similar experiences. Not as 'heavy' as it seems to be for you.
In general I strongly prefer instrumental music. But about three or four times a year I have!! to listen to music with vocals. Mostly Bach or other baroque and/or music from the renaissance. Even some arias from specific operas - but not any recitatives at all which I completely dislike.
Then also Billie Holiday (she's so great) or some other Jazz or Pop vocalists.
After a few days my longing for the human voice has diminished and I go back to my ususal musical diet.

Also I tend to have phases were I need specific food. F.e. I've had for about one year a ravenousness for spring onions. I ate them every single day.

Scraps said...

Addendum from previous post: when I said “I had that experience, ten years ago, when I had a stroke”, most of it was permanent. It was weird, but I’ve gotten used to it (especially where the effects of the stroke is much more serious: speak badly, aphasia, right side permanently paralyzed, etc).

correct silence said...

You supposed that this post made on the « perspective » was not available on cd.
But it is absolutely available on cd and also on download, see this page for the cd
It is the 2nd cd on the box set and all the box set is available as an mp3 download. on the most famous commercial company called amazon I’m almost sure that the version of the « perspective » comes from the cd or from the download, not from an lp.
It is here that I post this information because in addition to practicing lies, the man from the « perspective » also practices censorship

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